Fitness Minutes: (30,736)
291 1/25/13 1:23 P
It's an interesting question. Although there is some real "size" impact to the distinction, I think the question of deciding comes from something that is likely more on the perverted scale to start with. If you're talking, conversing, making eye contact, asking about the person and not the sack, it's fairly easy to see it as flirting. Overt commentary, regardless seems pervy.
Fitness Minutes: (36,922)
526 1/25/13 8:50 A
Now here is an educated female with right attitude, u are exactly right looks fade, love lasts forever, You can still see your wife girlfriend the way she looked at first everyday if u take the time to do it
Fitness Minutes: (12,489)
516 1/24/13 2:51 P
I choose to be a preverted flirt. It works for me and the women I know.
For the last couple of years I've been in an office that has one other guy and a half dozen attractive young women. Since I'm old enough to be considered "basically harmless" I've been privy to a number of conversations of flirting v perv. Generally, if a guy talks to her mouth or above, lots of eye contact (cue "windows to the soul" thing), it's considered flirting. Talking to the chin down... perv.
Wow, blacklight to your bed?!?! If I was your partner he'd be in serious trouble. I was never the flirting type, always went the respect aspect (a committed 43 year relationship helps) and I think that passed on to my son. He treats all women with respect and he has women throwing themselves at him.
I agree that it is uncomfortable if a man you don't find at ALL attractive flirts with you.
This is where context comes in.
I think we girls assumed the end goal of flirting was indicating that you found a woman attractive and wanted to do something about that. We tend to assume that IS always the end goal unless you're OBVIOUSLY gay or clearly coming from some other 'safe' (friend, co-worker, joking etc.) place.
Scenario 1. A HOT guy comes onto in a style that is very graphic and forward without there being any previous justification for such. We might feel flattered, but it is still pervy. Context here and the nature of the female will determine where this goes.
Scenario 2. An "unattractive" (for whatever reason) man "flirts" with a girl and she has no reason to dismiss the flirtation as 'innocent'? As the animals we are, we will find it less flattering (of OUR powers of attraction) than if an attractive man hits on us. So the immediate animal response will relate to how we feel his social 'worth' relates to ours. But what happens after that immediate animal response should help the man figure out what kind of female animal he is dealing with (her emotional maturity).
I think if you are a DECENT and KIND female, it's uncomfortable because you are looking for a kind way to indicate your lack of interest and maybe at a loss how to do that.
If you are uncomfortable because you are 'offended' by the interest of an "unattractive" person - then welcome to High School, since apparently you never matured past that age.
But the more mature a human you are, the easier it is to deal with it. Especially if the guy takes a subtle hint that the attraction is not mutual or welcome.
Creepy and pervy are what I have experienced in online dating and in real world dating where someone who has NO history, context, or justification to be overtly sexual initiates fairly graphic or crude early in interactions or refuses to take REPEATED (and increasingly not subtle) indications that the attentions are not welcome (or too early). No matter how attractive - that one is at best on thin ice.
But I emphasize (AS AN EDUCATIONAL PLEA) context and style REALLY matter here.
After all, what I would find creepy and pervy in someone who doesn't "know" me or have any history to justify that statement, I would probably find the very same statement "exciting" (ahem) if we did share an interest and history of getting to know each other.
Any statement that implies you want to "do" x, y, and/or z sexual to or with a woman you have only just met - well the context better REALLY indicate she is open to something that forward or bold. If not, trust me, you'll come across pervy or creepy.
Saying something nice about her appearance or personality, etc... without implying you want to follow through with "intimate" activity is pretty safely flirting or perhaps even just being friendly. And if the woman is uncomfortable that an 'unattractive' (for whatever reason) man is flirting with her - well she's either a bitch, or socially immature (which most people are).
You can probably suss out which is the case by whether she acts "offended" (bitch) or "uncomfortable" (unable to know how to respond to an awkward situation).
OK- I rambled on, but as I am actively trying to date - this issue is a 'hot button' for me.
Fitness Minutes: (37)
10 11/29/12 8:58 A
I think the perceived issue is the big one. If they find you attractive, then they don't mind you finding them attractive, but if they dent, they dent want you to find them so either. Like you're pervy only if you feel in a way that they dent.
I took a few moments & re-read some of the posts and somewhere along the posts an idea was introduced that wasn't aprt of the main topic: "Hitting on" or "chasing after".
IDK, I thought we were just talking about the difference of a fat man and a fit man's compliments to a woman.
Since I am no longer in the fat boys club this is a non-issue for me, I give compliments all the time to any woman and always get a receptive response now.
Another thing I want to add about what Gravelboy said at the beginning: "attitude", I now agree that this is a factor as well.
Fitness Minutes: (55,937)
5,647 11/27/12 11:01 P
A man's actions speak louder .. I agree with JOFGA it is more probably to do with the women you were messing with .. As a fat bodied person we want the beautiful ones to except us for what we are but live on the pretense that we are the same when in fact we arent . If I am approached with crude behavior then yea your done no matter what size you are .. But it is very interesting that you all have still sought after the same women .. I would think you would have learned better ... just my two scents ..
Pervy vs. Flirty are styles and context... that is one question and there is definitely a difference between the styles/context but it can be blurry depending on the woman.
How receptive your target is to the advance depends BOTH on the style/context AND whether she is receptive to you (this is where how "hot" you are comes into play).
There's no point in anyone pretending that there isn't a 'physical meat market' component to relationships. Receptivity to an apparent flirt is going to be marked by how "attractive" the parties are. I would argue that women are FAR MORE forgiving in terms of what they would accept in a RELATIONSHIP partner (while men may be far more forgiving in what they would accept in a sex partner).
I've been told that in general, men are more happy to be hit on by ANY woman that is remotely acceptable as a sex partner, so maybe us 'less attractive' girls could get "any man's" attention if we are flirty (or pervy) in hitting on the man. This basically operates on the assumption that a man will 'tap' anything on offer (assuming he's looking for action).
But even men are going to be more receptive to a "hotter" girl - so why expect anything different of women.
This is precisely why I think flirting is a CRAPPY way to start a relationship as it's all about the snap judgement of how physically attracted the parties are.
Too bad you guys dealt with bitchy chicks... but I have a theory that the women who treated you one way when heavy and another when buff... were probably also pretty attractive women (more likely to be bitches).
I call it 'pretty girl syndrome' - they get hit on all the time and they DO find it more interesting if the guy is hot. That's sort of standard across genders/sexes whatever.
I assume your style didn't change from time A to time B (you weren't previously saying things in a pervy way and now have suddenly become ever so more eloquent) - so yes, the BITCHY women you hit on (assuming they were attractive) reacted differently based on what they felt they 'deserved' - their market value.
If you flirted with less attractive or heavy girls - (or women that had some close experience with 'the struggle') I bet they would have been far more receptive both times.
Well, there are some pretty shallow boitchs out there. Its our society, alot of women are trained from birth to think bigger people are less worthy and aren't worth the time of day. I have family members that act this way, my mother threw a fit when I married my husband and he's a bigger guy...this is what I got from her "Why are marrying that fat thing?" My response..."Because I love who HE is, not what his shell looks like." My motto is..."Looks fade, I want someone to love me all my life." HS
Edited by: HEARTSTOPPER at: 4/8/2012 (11:51)
Fitness Minutes: (14,985)
610 4/8/12 10:55 A
It would be awesome if all women had that cool an attitude. But I agree with KJ. Others perception of me has changed dramatically from when I was a 320 pounder. We arent talking about someone who is truly creepy here. Its the mild behavior that at 300 plus pound would get me a disgusted look that now at 240 and muscular gets me a dazzling smile.Could be as innocent as a casual glance in someones direction in the supemarket line. A year ago Id get averted eyes,disgusted. More recently Ive gotten full smile that if I was still single I might have followed up on.
I disagree. My husband weights well over 300 pounds and he isn't a pervert.
A pervert to me is someone that brings up their privates within 2 minutes of meeting them. Can't stop staring at my boobs and doesn't try to hide that fact that hes staring at my boobs (uncomfortable!) Oh someone who just randomly asks "Do you swallow?" Or this one "Does your guy pull out?" Crap like that...perverts...I have a family member like this...he actually took a black light into my bedroom to see if I'd been having sex and then came to me and said "Either he pulls out of you go alot when you have sex"
A flirt on the other hand, I don't mind flirts TO A POINT...old guys flirt with me all the time and I think its cute. When younger guys do it, I smile, say thanks and show them my wedding ring.
Weight makes no difference in this matter, atleast to me it doesn't.
Btw haven't visited you guys for awhile...Happy Easter:)
Fitness Minutes: (30,737)
115 3/23/12 11:36 P
Being a chick, I can honestly say that I have known a lot of very muscular and fit men that I would definitely classify as pervy, and a lot of larger men that I would definitely classify as flirts. Size doesn't make a difference, if you're creepy and trying to eye rape me, you're a total creep, and likely to get the cold shoulder or a black eye. Just sayin'! :-)
I think the issue is "percieved" creepiness vs flirtiness.
If someone is good looking to the person they are "undressing" then it's generally accepted, however, an ugly person doing the same thing is NEVER accepted.
A person's perspective and how a person reacts may be two seperate issues here.
For me, I'd never pop a good looking or ugly woman in the face for undressing mewith their eyes or at least I haven't as of this point in time.
Fitness Minutes: (11,189)
262 3/11/12 1:51 P
Coming from a woman's point of view here, I don't care if you weigh 300 squishy pounds or a solid, muscled 210, if you're undressing me with your eyes, you're a creepy pervert. And in about three seconds, both your eyes are gonna be black and swelled shut. Cause I'm gonna pop you. :)
And before anybody can ask, I've been married eleven years. My husband was a flirt.
Fitness Minutes: (14,985)
610 3/9/12 8:07 P
I definitly get treated differently now than a year ago. Dont feel like a different person, and dont act any different. But I absolutly can get away with behavior that would have gotten me shunned a year ago.
I share some of the same experience as KJ on this. I went to all my daughters practices, games and school events for years... completely unnoticed. I get in shape and wow the soccer moms gravitate over to have a chat... same ones that didn't even notice I was there years earlier. I know this is a thread about flirt vs pervert so I'll give my opinion. All I know is that I can be a flat out flirt now with no complaints. I can come on to them, flirt with them, make my "intentions" known they eat it up. The topic of conversation are much different too, they usually inquire about my personal life, if I'm dating.. ect ect . Put it this way, I know the details(color, size, model) of the devices most women keep in their night stand... and I would have been a pervert before LOL
Today, I know that line very well. My young friends I spoke of feel totally comfortable with me and relaxed and I would NEVER cross that line, I actually LIKE them for who they are rather than what they look like.
I agree with what you're saying in regards to what women view as attractive. But I think creepiness is a trait that supercedes looks, weight, age, etc. Some guys just come across this way based upon how they present themselves. I know some personal trainers that are this way and it is a huge turnoff to their potential female clientle. I have tried to capture the "cool dad" market since most of my clients are females around my daughters age. In my mind you can have fun (call it flirting if you want to) but there is a line that is never crossed if you want to maintain that friendship.
Fitness Minutes: (12,713)
4,110 3/9/12 11:14 A
Totally understand. Same thing here. I don't really flirt and show any interest in that sort of way, as I'm happily married and intend to stay that way, but I get invited to do things with females way more now than I ever did. Coincidence? I think not.
I got that same story, too, Bill from a now close co-worker.
This next thing is TOTALLY superficial and I think I'm allowed a little latitude here on this: I currently have four super HOT females as friends, NOT sexual friends, just regular "hey, so tell me about your weekend" type friends who I sometimes drink with and play basketball with. In my past life, no way in hell would they have been my friends.
Fitness Minutes: (12,713)
4,110 3/9/12 9:34 A
Agree with KJ here. I'm not much of a flirt, but there is definitely a lot of fat bias among the ladies. I've been working with a single gal for a few months now. We have a lot of fitness type conversations and have hit it off pretty well ... you know, past the whole superficial aspect of things, or so I thought. One day I showed her my driver's license (circa 2006) and she said "oh my god, no offense Bill, but I don't think I could have been friends with that guy". Wow.
Yup, I use to totally tell myself that all the time when I was fat. It ain't true, brother, it ain't true.
Fitness Minutes: (39,406)
471 3/9/12 12:42 A
It is not weight, it is all attitude. You can tell a girl she looks nice twenty different ways, but the way you say it while undressing her with your eyes will be the pervy way if she is not into you...
interesting way to frame the topic of how some folks see fat guys as perverts and fit guys as flirts.
When i was in the fat boys club I was most certainly a creepy perv, after I lost weight and starting lifting and started dressing to show off my body I because a big flirt. In fact, the same women at work who wouldn't give me the time of day 5 years ago are some of my closet colleagues now.
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