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AMANDANCES Posts: 1,983
8/20/13 11:31 P

I went to the link -- and I still think counting calories or tracking food has this built in.

Like I said, when I want pizza or some high calorie food, I either save it for my long run days (when I burn 600+ calories) or I eat lighter the rest of the day. Honestly, I haven't given up any foods, and only cut back on some (like alcohol.)

I mean, whatever works for you is great. As long as it works long-term. This just sounds a little gimick-y. Just my thoughts.

LIVN2BFIT SparkPoints: (4,093)
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8/20/13 9:15 P

OK, there are many posters who are really passionate about this topic...I can be regimented, and many of us have 'trigger' foods that can set us off on a binge...we learn to avoid those foods, but what about others who CAN have a small indulgence and still stay on track???

Read up on the idealogy behind this plan and form your own opinions...all input is appreciated!
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weightloss.about.com/od/morediet1/a/9010di
et.htm


AMANDANCES Posts: 1,983
8/20/13 10:22 A

I'm with those who'd like to string up "Dr." Oz, so I'm prejudiced already, but I don't understand this whole 90/10 -- the point of it, I mean.

Allowing oneself "cheat days" defeats the whole point of a lifestyle change.

Apply this to other areas of life: So 90 percent of the time I'm faithful to my husband, but 10 percent of the time I can "cheat" ??? 90 percent of the time I'm a good parent, but 10 percent of the time I just let my toddler wander the neighborhood? 90 percent of the time I don't drink and drive, but I give myself freedom to do so 10 percent of the time? See how stupid it sounds?

We AIM for a certain goal, but including deliberate foils to that goal is ridiculous.

Eat healthy and exercise. It's really NOT that hard.

My family has pizza on Fridays. In order to do this, calorie- and nutrition-wise, I make sure we have vegetables and fruits for breakfast and lunch. Personally I have a running goal -- a weekly mileage goal. Do I always meet that goal? No, but I don't schedule in days to "blow off" that goal either. It's a GOAL, not a rule.



LIVN2BFIT SparkPoints: (4,093)
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8/19/13 5:48 P

If you we scored at the 90% in class, we'd be in the top 10%, so how do we feel about meeting our goals 90% of the time??? emoticon emoticon

LIVN2BFIT SparkPoints: (4,093)
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8/17/13 8:57 A

Interesting posts going on....I can see how some may see 90:10 as a fad or way to 'excuse' making healthy choices
When I read about it, though, I viewed it moreso as if I'm exercising and eating in proper proportions 90% of the time, then the 10% I may not be quite up to par will not take me back down the path of destruction...
I think when we first start out, many of us have the mentality of ALL or NOTHING...if we aren't 100% tracking and in line 100% of the time, we won't meet our goals-and many of us will need to be that strict...
I know in the 'maintainance' phase of many plans, there is a step-down-like phase where other foods are gradually reintroduced-like Medifast or other Dr. monitored plans...

I like how most posters agree that if you find something that works for YOU, then do it...when you hit that plateau then switch it up a bit...
I'm also not an advocate of 'fad diets' and agree they only serve to mess with your mind/metabolism...90:10, for me, is more a mindset, not another fad or diet...

Keep your ideas flowing!
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SIFUMARY1 SparkPoints: (7,774)
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8/16/13 7:26 P

I like your post.

AZULVIOLETA6 SparkPoints: (59,803)
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8/16/13 4:32 P

While that sounds reasonable and makes sense in the abstract...how do you really quantify that?

As someone mentioned before, if that means that every 10th meal is an all-out cheat meal, then that is WAY too much leeway. I certainly could not be successful eating that way.

As a general philosophy of not having to be perfect all the time...OK. Stuff happens, life gets hard and people slip up. It's OK to forgive yourself and move on. On the other hand, I can see how a lot of people might talk themselves into believing that they are using a 10% leeway, when really it is 20 or 30%.

Hmmm.

I guess this doesn't work for me. If you are going to quantify something, it needs to be more concrete.



DIDS70 Posts: 5,070
8/16/13 4:02 P

i see a lot of WW propaganda and "weightwatcherisms" as games that you play on yourself. They are mind games.
I did weight watchers for years but when they went to free fruit, i left.
I did Jenny Craig for a year, lost the weight only to gain it back.
I followed fad diets, screwed up my metabolism and general health.

I am now on a path that i enjoy. I like what I eat and don't mind what I don't. i don't touch pork, (includes bacon), needless sugar (cookies, cakes, ice cream,pop), sugar substitutes, whole grains, or dairy. I only eat grass fed beef and chicken on occassion.
Do I see it as depriving myself? Not in the least. My body makes it apparent to me quickly when it gets something it doesn't like or can't digest well.
occassionally I may have a cookie or brownie but not daily,not weekly.
I feel that the 90:10 rule is just another game the diet industry is getting us to play.
But if you can make it workf for you-- GO FOR IT.

I will stick with my 5 essentials that never go out of style and have been keeping me out of the doctors office for three year (a medical practioner that is)-- maximized mind, maximized oxygen, minimized toxins, maximized nutrition, and maximized nerve supply.
that is the only 90:10 program I need.

LIVN2BFIT SparkPoints: (4,093)
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8/15/13 9:52 P

I liked what Patti said about sensibilities-all in moderation!

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LADYSTARWIND SparkPoints: (23,297)
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8/14/13 11:51 P

Personally, I could care less what Weight Watchers is "allowing" its members to do!! Some of their ideas are getting as far left field as Dr Oz has become(which I am sorry to realize too!) It has always seems wacky to me to spend the time learning "points" and which foods are "free" when in reality....they all have calories...they all have nutrients....so learn that basic system and be done with it. Trying to play games with it is far less realistic....

I'm with those who don't find a need to exclude food groups nor favorite foods. If you haven't excluded it to begin with....then you dont' need to "allow" yourself to have it 10% of the time...! Portions and sensible eating (loved not having the chocolate bar for brkfst JenniLacey !!) are what work best for me....and can be applied in any situation to any food.....
patti

Edited by: LADYSTARWIND at: 8/14/2013 (23:52)
CHIBI_TOTORO SparkPoints: (147)
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8/14/13 9:19 P

To me, personally, every step is a success. Currently, i was eating about 3000 cals, according to SP. fast food, almost every day. "small" but small burgers AND fries and a cone add up.

so for me, it isn't about particular goals, but learning how to eat 1) ballanced, 2) portion size, 3) the "right" things.

if 90/10 is how you are making your successes, than that's what matters! I read so many people here, and they have different strategies, which is why i love reading these boards. other than the "dieters", or pill taking, or whatever. if it's healthy, and it works, that's great. and if you share and it works for others, that's better!



LIVN2BFIT SparkPoints: (4,093)
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8/14/13 7:27 P

I'm also of the opinion that all or nothing can prove fatalistic...so many of us lose heart if we aren't 100% every day...or we use it as an excuse as the oh, well, I messed up, so may as well eat what I want and I'll 'start over' tomorrow...that's not the philosophy behind 90:10, I'm sure

Have a 'fulfilling' day!
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STLOUISWOMAN Posts: 6,319
8/13/13 8:57 P

Thanks for the reminder that we don't have to be perfect to get results. I have learned that I will have a slip now & then,so I no longer beat myself up about it when it happens.
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LIVN2BFIT SparkPoints: (4,093)
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8/13/13 8:48 P

I think that the 90:10 rule makes life livable for many of us...whether that means that 10 days out of 90 I allow myself to have a small indulgence or cut back on exercise, or whether it means that 90% of what I consume must be 'healthy choices', or 90% of my caloric intake is NOT junk...to each their own, but I'd still encourage those who are beating themselves up just because they weren't 'perfect' with their diet on any given day to take notice that it's over a LONG period of time that we develop healthy habits and lifestyle changes....it's all about 'baby-steps'...some people may even need to start their journey at the 50:50 goal and progress gradually from there....keep on keeping on!!!
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JUDY1260 SparkPoints: (2,712)
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8/13/13 7:33 A

I just took a quick look at Tony Horton's 90:10 plan. It sounds sensible enough, though I'm not sold on the "eat 90% foods with only one ingredient" part. I eat foods like whole wheat bread (obviously more than one ingredient) and 4% cottage cheese (made only with skim milk, cream and salt). Maybe those would fit into that 10%, even though I don't consider them to be "dirty" foods.

Great discussion. Thanks for giving me something new to check out!

SIFUMARY1 SparkPoints: (7,774)
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8/11/13 11:49 P

interesting I'm having some will power issues right now.

JWOOLMAN SparkPoints: (901)
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8/11/13 11:48 P

One interpretation is just to make at least 90% of our food for the day high nutrition foods. That sounds about right. Then if you normally need 1500 calories per day, aim on the average to only have no more than about 150 calories per day in the low nutrition category. You don't have to somehow fit two Oreo cookies (150 calories) into your daily diet, of course... But that's a good guideline to make sure your treats aren't pushing out other food you really need.

LIVN2BFIT SparkPoints: (4,093)
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8/11/13 9:06 P

I appreciate all the comments, both for/against my original post...I'm not sure that I explained the concept clearly enough, but I'd encourage everyone to check out Tony Horton/Dr. Oz, Discovery Health, and a host of other sources that promote the freedom to choose 90:10 and still lose weight-perheps even more effectively...
Please continue to post-love to hear form personal experiences...
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JENNILACEY SparkPoints: (75,341)
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8/11/13 11:58 A

The 90:10 rule refers to "cheat meals". If 9/10 of your meals are healthy meals then you can have 1 cheat meal every 10 meals (so if you eat 5 meals a day every other day one of those meals can be a cheat meal).

I also don't have off-limit foods but base my food choices on how those foods/food combinations are going to make me feel. I don't consider any meals/foods to be "cheats". Some choices are just poorer choices than others when it comes to supplying the body with sustainable energy, satiety, nutrients, etc.

I know if I eat a chocolate bar for breakfast, it's not likely to fill me up for long. It will probably get me hyped up for about 20-30 mins and then I'll crash and feel hungry again. So I don't eat chocolate bars for breakfast. If I do feel like chocolate in the morning then I'll sprinkle some chocolate chips on my whole grain oatmeal with some natural peanut butter.

I could choose a small fast food cheeseburger for dinner and fries for around 500 cals or I could choose a ton of veg, some lean meat and a carb (potato or corn) and still have cals left over for a yogurt parfait with fruit and granola for dessert. The first is likely to leave me hungry again in an hour or two and extremely bloated from all the sodium.

I know if I buy a box of cookies, a serving of cookies (2) will never be enough and I'm likely to devour a whole tray. So I don't buy or make cookies. I don't even like them all that much, just for some reason... I can't stop eating them. So something I don't need in my regular diet. I save them for Christmas time.

I prefer to make sensible food choices, choices that I know are going to give me the most bang for my buck; satiety and nutrient-wise. If I want to have a "treat" I just make sure the rest of my food for the day is complete and balanced and the treat will not compromise my energy or satiety. I probably enjoy "treats" far more often than 90/10% but then again... I consider natural peanut butter a treat. ;) I love the food I eat 100% of the time so no need to have a 90/10 rule.

Edited by: JENNILACEY at: 8/11/2013 (12:42)
JUDY1260 SparkPoints: (2,712)
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8/11/13 8:36 A

BITHOO, until I responded to this post yesterday I never focused on a 90:10 rule. I liked the original poster's message and commented on it with my own personal experience.

MY thoughts about 90:10 is that it does not have to be precise. There's no rule that when you hit 10% of your day/week/month that you're cut off from foods that aren't part of your "diet plan." If you want to have a cookie, go ahead and have a cookie. It's certainly not going to kill you and it's not going to make you gain a pound overnight (some people may think it will, but it won't). Just don't eat the whole box. You don't need to do an extra workout as punishment for having a cookie or two or a brownie. Just enjoy it and move on.

In my life, that proverbial 10% does not include eating several brownies in one sitting or an entire bag of chips (my trigger, so that's not an option for me). It means being able to eat one or two of my daughter's delicious fresh baked cookies fresh out of the oven or going to a gathering and having one or two desserts and not beating myself up for it. It means not feeling like a failure for "blowing my diet" - because I didn't blow it. I made a conscious choice to enjoy a treat and I'm not going to stress out about it.

Last night I was out where there were tables of food. I had a handful of potato chips with some dip (didn't give Spark People a second thought), a small serving of some type of yummy lemon trifle, a lemon square made by my daughter and a brownie. Writing it all down now I'm saying "wow, that's a lot" but it was over the span of five hours. I also had 3 oz of a delicious grilled chicken breast that I brought for myself. I took a walk when I got home (not as punishment, but because it's a nightly routine) and moved on. I actually had to sit down for a few minutes just now to remember what I had because it was a non-issue. I don't obsess about "cheat days" because I'm making health my main focus, not weight loss. Those foods aren't kept in my house so they're considered a special treat that I don't eat very often.

I don't know if my thoughts help anyone at all. I don't have a lot of weight, if any, to lose. I've changed my mentality to focus on health instead of weight loss. I'd love to see the scale drop 8-10 pounds but I don't know if it'll ever happen. If it does, great. If not, then so be it. I do know that what I'm doing right now is better than what I was doing two months ago, when I was not exercising at all and eating an entire bag of potato chips in 2 days.

I'm 52 years old and have finally come to the realization that life is too short to obsess about every morsel I put in my mouth.

Edited by: JUDY1260 at: 8/11/2013 (17:34)
CMCOLE Posts: 2,667
8/11/13 8:31 A

I think that 10% daily can easily become a larger and larger percentage.

I prefer do as others have said - allow for items to fit within my menu, and track them.

ALIUSIA SparkPoints: (5,654)
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8/11/13 2:21 A

I agree that if you want to have a little something extra to plan it in to your days calorie range. This is where they talk about meal planing and buying for the week come into play. Also getting a good mental image of portion sizes helps too. Check out the quiz on portion distortion, and what 300 calories looks like. Usually if something looks or smells yummy I indulge in those two senses and if I really feel like it, I'll have a bite-but just one, and savor it. I don't feel deprived and I've satisfied all three of my senses.

SIMONEKP Posts: 2,512
8/11/13 1:12 A

I prefer to be more precise so measuring and tracking is all or nothing for me. As far as the composition of my meals, I have no off-limit foods so I plan my food including treats to fit within my range.

KATIZUMI20131 SparkPoints: (382)
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8/11/13 12:01 A

Hi BITHOO...I think that 10% is something you have to eyeball....that is, estimate, like I eyeball 1/4 inch hem when I sew on my sewing machine, because I have done it lots of times and have learned to measure by comparison. I can feel it, i can see it. I have to think in my mind and say have i eaten mostly healthy today, this week, this month? How much of what I ate today, this week, etcetera was healthy and how much was fun food? A tiny bit? Half? Half of half? It would have to be one/tenth, wouldn't it? and 9/10 healthy. Or maybe...on the 10th day, I can have a chocolate bar. Once a week, I can have a cookie. You have to feel it, eventually. Actually, I think it would average out to be 2.5 times a month I could eat a dessert, or overeat or something...but actually if I eat a dessert, I can adjust my calorie count for that on the same day or the next day. I could exercise an extra time...i could look at the calorie count for that sweet and figure it out. My body talks to me, though. That is my best measure. I know when I am over and under without adding and subtracting...but it helps a lot to log it and see it in numbers. I cannot remember past the end of my nose. sarah

BITHOO SparkPoints: (8,864)
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8/10/13 10:25 P

My question is -- how do you figure out when you've hit that 10%? Is it a single chocolate bar that fits within your calorie range? Getting to eat as many brownies as you want for a single day? not bothering to weigh your meat? eating a whole bag of chips? And how often can you do it? Is it "a little treat each day," or once a week, or once a month?

I think I'd find it tough to work that part out!

KATIZUMI20131 SparkPoints: (382)
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8/10/13 10:15 P

Thank you Judy1260 for that sensible rule: 90/10! If its punishment, then its punishment! Not a change. I recently reworked my spark program completely because i was depriving and simply exercising too hard, making myself very ill and putting myself in danger. Not recommended in spark, of course, but I still have a lot of diet mentality in me, too! And I am dealing with depression/mania thinking due to my lifetime bipolar condition...for 40 years! It takes time to change, and the biggest change is mental. That must happen before any lasting, effective results can take place. I did a month in spark with old thinking, lost 14 pounds...and got sick! Now I am back and not willing to get sick again. I wasn't getting fit...I was punishing myself for being fat! But hopefully, no more.I don't have to punish myself. I am not guilty. I am just overweight. Thanks for your post. Sarah

JUDY1260 SparkPoints: (2,712)
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8/10/13 10:03 P

I don't believe in depriving yourself and making foods completely forbidden. If someone has a trigger food and they can't control themselves when it's in front of them, then it probably is a good idea not to eat it. I have my own trigger foods that I've sworn off until I know I can control myself (see my progress in my ticker!). However, for stuff that isn't a trigger, there's no reason to get in the mindset that you can never, ever eat it again because it's a "bad" food. That's setting yourself up for the feeling of failure when you do indulge. I went out tonight to a once-a-month scrapbooking crop with my daughter. I enjoyed a few delicious goodies without guilt, then we took a walk together when we got home. It's taken a lot of personal reflection before I could get the diet mentality out of my head. I read a lot of blogs, did research and educated myself. This time around, for me, it's truly a lifestyle change and not a weight-loss program. I'm going into it accepting the fact that I may or may not lose weight because I've increased the calorie range that SP set for me. I'm feeding my body enough nutritious food to fuel it. I will not allow myself to feel hungry or deprived. I eat mostly healthy foods now but still indulge in the occasional treat (a fresh baked cookie or birthday cake, for example).

Earlier today I changed my status update on my Spark page to this:

Life's too short to deprive yourself of the good stuff. If you can't enjoy a day with friends that includes food & fun, it's a punishment, not a lifestyle change.

Edited by: JUDY1260 at: 8/10/2013 (22:04)
LIVN2BFIT SparkPoints: (4,093)
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8/10/13 8:50 P

Hi,
Those of us who realize that life can impact our eating habits, agree that IF we can eat healthy 90% of the time, that we can still make improvements and progress for our journeys...
If Weight Watchers & other large companies are realizing this, then, let's give ourselves permission to do so as well...
SO, 90% of our meals will be on target, but if 10% isn't, we'll still make progress and be more satisfied in the long run...then the journey, which is life-long, becomes more doable...

Who's tried this? Who would like to commit to this??? Just post your thoughts/progress here emoticon emoticon

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