Marriage is a tremendous amount of work. And yes I also don't want my kids repeating my mistakes. I just hope and pray that they will learn from them and not act the same way or end up the same way. My husband and I are just really burnt out and spend so much time with our jobs, that maybe we don't have the energy to commit to each other. Which makes things worse. We both hope that eventually things may lighten up a bit, so we can enjoy life a little better and relax a bit.
CJOANALLEN 1/22/08 9:14 A
There are always extenuating circumstances. I am divorced. The clincher for me was the question "Would I want my child to stay in a relationship like this?" No. So, to me, I was living a lie and teaching my children something I didn't want too.
That said, I TRULY believe if BOTH people work on it, relationships can be fixed and work. But, both people have to work on it. One person cannot have their way all the time.
Communication and respect are the key. I am also a very touchy feely person. That is how I show my love and affection and I need the same.
I am currently with the love of my life. We can talk about anything, are equally affectionate...it is amazing.
MEBEGINA 1/22/08 8:40 A
Good luck to you all...I would offer some advice; however, my taste in men is awful, one failed marriage, and another failed long term relationship... I just gave up!!!
KINGSWOODQUEEN 1/22/08 5:27 A
Marriage is hard work!
NORTHWOODSGRRL 1/22/08 5:22 A
I wonder why this is so familiar to all of us. Why doesn't anyone talk about this BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED? My husband and I struggle to understand each other, and I thought we were on the same page. We have only been married a few months, but we are still adjusting. I am guessing we will always be adjusting. Hahaha.
ROCKFARMER 1/17/08 9:49 P
I have been married to the same man for 19 years. It is something of a long distance relationship, as his work keeps him away for months sometimes. My advice is this: Too many people are quitters. Give it time. Marriages take work, hard work sometimes, at least real ones do. Many times I have looked at him and thought "What I wouldn't give to get as far away from him as I can" then boom, maybe the next day, the next week, the next month, whatever, I would look at him and think, "God what have I ever done to deserve such a good man?" Let's be honest, we females can be a bit finicky at times, and if he isn't abusive, cheating, or unemployable, stick it out for a while. You are a family, and it's sad to see a family break apart. I went to my doc one time for something or other, and we were talking about this and that, he asked about my husband. I went into a tirade about how iritating he was, and I was going to get a divorce, ect. He (Doc) insisted I try a new pill. I thought he was giving me something for the libido or something. Nope. It was for depression. My Doc saw what I refused to see.
VALPO1997 1/15/08 3:06 P
We all kick around the idea of divorce and the point of they don't make me happy or etc.
Lets say that there are a lot of reasons to point to as problems on both sides of the fences here ladies and gentlemen. A relationship is two people and neither are perfect.
I included in this have been with my husband for several years and have gone through a very rough spot this past one. We have a daughter together and I have a step daughter as well and I too thought that divorce might be the answer to the questions looming over me.
The best advice I can give anyone that is thinking about divorce is look at your relationship and ask yourself the important questions.
As women we tend to ask our friends what to do and compare what their husbands do and do not do. Well, plain and simple people you did not marry their husband!
Each person is different and have different push points. You need to decide what is best for you, bar no harm is coming to yourself or your children. Marriage is hard work and we all need to work at getting better at it. It is different for us all and is good for us all and is bad for us all.
Marriage is not the fairy tale ending with prince charming getting married. Noticed they never showed you a year later? Because it is hard! Really really hard and we all do and say things wrong/stupid.
Ask yourself this. What did you originally fall in love with this person for? Can you recaputre that? Have you let day to day activities get in the way of your life with that person?
Trust me when I say I have asked all these questions and I am still with my husband for the simple fact I want to try. I want to work at my marriage. (and so does he) But it took a moment from him to say that to me. He first lashed out with I'm done trying.
Please look hard inside and do not compare to everyone else. Speaking to people is good in this forum because it is like therapy in the way it is confidential.
FRANMAC 1/11/08 10:16 A
First let me say - you are doing great with your weight loss!! Keep up the terrific work! I have been trying and working on my marriage for years. I want it to work too. So I hang in there. But believe me, there are many times I subconsciously just want to hang in the towel. But I keep sticking it out.
LILMAMA70726 1/11/08 9:56 A
its kinda a relief to know im not alone...me and my husband have recently went through this..i fell outta love with him..we are working on it now. i want my family to work we have three kids together.
FRANMAC 1/11/08 9:33 A
Oh believe me - my kids know. How could they not? We talk about things, and he did leave twice. They are old enough to understand. When they were very small I would cover for him when he would go out and not say anything to them like good night or when he would go on his yearly motorcycle vacations with just he and his dad, and on and on. But as they got older and were not as naive, along with me getting tired of more and more mental abuse, I stop defending him, and we became more of a team - just the three of us, the kids and I. We have worked on the relationship so much - but I don't know if it should be this hard. I feel its all me. He promised so much if he could back this time and as I have said, its worse this time. We do love each other, but he never shows it, and things can't be like that. To him showing it is working almost 60 hours a week to pay the bills. Nothing else. And its almost like I should be lucky for that. I am sorry but that is not what love is about. Its great that he is repsonsible financially, but there should be more!
JOGIBBIE 1/11/08 7:09 A
To respond to your original start. kids know. I myself knew my mom was w/ stepdad for me.Then she later left after I was out on my own & pregnant myself. She then rushed into marriage due to not wanting to be alone. The new husband is mentally abusive to her, but she won't walk away. My hubby & I had a very rough time when our son was about 8yrs. old. I thought we werehiding it good, none of our family or freinds knew. But my son & I (very close) were out on our weekly outing, & he looked at me and said mommy can I ask you something. I said sure anything. He saidwhy do we even have daddy. I was kind of puzzled. Asked him what he ment. He said he doesn't do anything w/me or anything for you. I was so shocked. I talked it over w/ hubby that night. I didn't tell him what our son said, but did let him know we were caught by our son. 3 weeks later we went on a weekend just us to see if we even liked each others company anymore. Go figure we did. That was 6 years ago. We are still together, but its not for our son. We have ups & downs still. And for the you taking a break don't wait for him to give you one tell him its a team effort & if he wants dinner every night he'll have to help work for it. I take 2 days every year to myself completely off, If I don't have money no problem I just take the day of. I tell family its my day off fend for yourself. There was only 1 time I had a problem I went away w/ some girlfreinds came home hubby said, I didn't feel like doing the dishes. I asked if he had some $ I could have. He said yes I said good I don't feel like doing the dishes either, so I threw them all away, except pots & pans. Then went & trook his $. Said I'll see in a little while I need to go get nr=ew dishes. 15 min. later my cellpohone rang hubby said I did your D... dishes. I said OOOOH my dishes thougt you guys used them I wasn't even home. He was silent them said sorry; you are right, I LOVE U!! It been smoother since then.
FRANMAC 1/10/08 4:50 P
I think its similar with us. But I don't know if he really knows what love is, I mean all the facets of love. He loves his kids, but hardly spends anytime with them at all. Its very rare he will do something with them, never mind family things - that almost never happens. Its sad to me and I wish things could be different. Lack of funds I think is what has kept us together besides us deep down both wanting to be with the other, but I guess its like you said - we are not always in love with each other.
BLUEBIRD46360 1/10/08 4:45 P
My husband, was in his 1st maariage with a woman that he loved but wasn't in love with.. he loved her as the mother of his children and that was it. When she was home he went out. He stayed in the relationship because of his kids. Now divorced for 3 years from her and remarried to me. Not only him but the kids are alot happier too. We spend alot more time togeather as a family than they ever had, which is alot better for the kids. They spend alot more fun time with there real mother too. (There are more happier moments in all cases.)
JESWEETIE 1/10/08 11:20 A
I am sorry that you have to go through this. As if parenting wasn't hard enough. All I want to do is to be the best mom I can be and I have to worry about my love life? People wonder about my current boyfriend, who I love, and tell me to ditch him for someone who has more money and can support me. Someone who I can build a future with. I tell them that a marraige is extremely hard work and so is raising children the right way. I dont need to worry about a marraige right now, I need to be a mom. My relationship is perfect just where it stands. I dont see him a lot and thats ok. We miss each other and he only comes over when kids are gone. Thats ok. Later, when my children have grown, then will I be able to put the effort that I know now is needed into a marraige. My chidren and myself are too important to get squeezed any more thin than they are.
FRANMAC 1/9/08 2:32 P
You are sure right there - it is exhausting reading this - because so much of it hits home. I have experienced much of what you have gone through. We separated twice - starting with his cheating though. I have tried by taking him back in, because I do love him, and I know it is financially hard to be a single mom. He was and still is, very responsible though financially. We had the same situation - we couldn't afford a divorce and he was quite kind at least knowing that, and keeping me on his health insurance, car insurance, cell phone and even more besides giving me weekly money that was actually more than I would have gotten if we were divorced. I just get very upset and almost betrayed that things ended up back the way they were - really worse now because of the lack of any physical connection.
JESWEETIE 1/9/08 1:41 P
Wow- I am exhausted reading all of this. I really have to say that as women, we put up with way more than we should. Here's my story. I am seperated from my husband for two years now. We can't afford a divorce, nor do we have the time for it. When we were still together things were not great. I worked 2 jobs, one which was a day care that I took my daughter, then both of my kids with me. My husband worked nights, so when I got home at 7 each night I had to feed 2 children, bathe them, play with them, and get them ready for bed. I was thoroughly exhausted but then cleaned up the house. My husband got off work at 4 am, and could not make himself stay up to help out with at least the morning ritual. So, every morning I had to be to work by 7:30 with my 2 children in tow. I also taught Sunday school, which was an argument every week for 2 reasons. He didn't believe in God and it didnt pay. I also worked at arestaraunt on Sundys, which was also a fight every week. I left him at home with the kids! For a long time I tried to tell my husband how unhappy I was and his usual response was, your always unhappy. No kidding! Then I gave up. But I kept thinking about my children. They were so young. I could not leave and break up there happy home. I then starting becoming close with another man and ended up having an affair, For a year! It was horrible. I was so distraught yet had no one to turn to. The man I was with was also in the same boat as I was. Kids, failed relationship. We connected like I never had before. I fell in love with him and wanted to be with him. I am normally a good person with high morals and values. I was such a mess, that it actually made me physically sick. For the last 6-7 months before my husband found out, I was vomitting every weekend and had hives all over my body. I was itching so much I had bruises everywhere. Well, yes, he found out. And what I didn't have the strength to do was done for me. We split up and although it still brings me to tears to think about my children and how they would love for us to be together, it all worked out. With me gone, he had nothing left but his children, and became the greatest father ever. It makes me sad that together we couldnt do this but its being done and that is the bottom line. We support each other in our parenting and always keep the children's best interest at top priority. Things like Christmas and first day of school and school play we do all together. Sometimes you just have to be friends for them. They will love you for it. I do have to say though that I wish we had tried harder to make it work before it was over. Life is tough as a single mom. 2 jobs, home to clean, school stuff, wait thats what I did anyway. Oh yeah, no extra spending money, that is hard.
FRANMAC 1/9/08 9:27 A
Wow - it seems you and I are pretty much in the same boat. I have and still do experience the same things. And a few years ago before our first split, my husband would be on the internet chatting constantly, and I would hang in there and try to cope with it, until finally he asked me if he could take an airplane trip. I told him I can't tell him what to do because I wasn't his mother, but if he went that he couldn't come back. And he did! He now justifies it by saying that we were having problems. Going and cheating is not the way to work out anything. I can overcome even the phsical cheating but it was the mental cheating that was hard to deal with. Now after coming back the second time and telling me he would change, its back to me working and doing all the kid stuff and household stuff because he always says he is too tired from working 60 hours a week to pay the bills that he blames on me. There is so much more but like I said - I am trying to cope with it all.
FRANMAC 1/9/08 9:11 A
Clyde - so here you can get a woman's side of the story. I don't know how you were with her, but my husband even now, after me taking him back two times - still is to the point that doesn't take me out, no physical connection at all - he isn't a passionate type of person, and there are your typical strifes like money related issues that are all dumped primarily on me which isn't fair. I am a very bending person and have broad shoulders but there is so much a person can take. I have done and am trying to meet all of what he wanted with this reconciliation. But what I wanted - there is just about nothing that I am getting that I wanted to be changed. But I would still say he is my soulmate - we have our good moments - it just seems like there aren't enough of them.
CLYDERICHARD2 1/9/08 7:38 A
Franmac said "...I think he is the kind of person that is great to be friends with but not to live with."
My wife and I were really close friends for years - we could talk for hours and we'd laugh and sing with her kids and take roadtrips.... then we decided to get married, and by the end of the first day I felt something had changed. Now three years later we are divorcing, and we can't have a two minute conversation about a medical card without defensiveness and weirdness.
I try so very hard to find any way I can to connect with her again, and only succeed after times that we are out of contact with each other for a while. Then I get to talk to my friend again, and everything is comfortable...
There's an old song from the 60's that says "...and then I go and ruin it all by sayin' something stupid like 'I love you'..."
Weird part is that I know she feels the same way - but we can't even use that as a starting point to work it out - and she refuses to go to marriage counselling.
Some friendships apparently can't survive marriage.
KARISSAA 1/8/08 8:58 P
Well, I'm glad other people got help with my thread, too! :-)
My husband...hmmm...I love him, of course, to the extent that he is my children's father...he is a good father when he chooses to pry himself away from whatever he's doing (computer games, tv, whatever)...he'll (begrudgingly) help out with things if I ask him to...I'm not attracted to him in the slightest bit anymore, to the point that being with him makes me feel gross by the time we're done, whether it's a few minutes or an hour...I do most everything around the house: I get up first, get the kids up and dressed and their breakfasts ready to go, cook dinner when we get home (usually with kids underfoot), give the kids their bath, put them to bed, try to straighten up the house a bit...cleaning on the weekends is done by me and the kids...I do all of their laundry, and most of the towels/sheets (he'll do 1-2 loads of towels when he does his laundry)...I take the kids to do things like the library or to Kid's Club at Michael's or to their gymnastics class...when he does things with the kids, he's great, it's just that he so rarely DOES...and I've mentioned to him before...he has 0-3 games a week to go to (season hockey tickets), schedules 2 nights a week for his online gaming (I HATE WoW), and then the other nights and weekend days he'll go online "for a few minutes" and end up being there all night or day (or both)...I've brought up the priority issues before...he says he needs time to "relax", and I tell him that's great, but when do *I* get to relax? The only time he does any of the AM or PM routine is if I work overtime, and even then he doesn't clean the kitchen when he cooks dinner (I always clean after I cook). When I ask him to help, he's always obviously annoyed. I have taken therapy myself, and it helped me to feel better, but did not do anything to help my actual relationship (although the antidepressants helped me hide my misery). I am happiest when he's not around, when he's not home and it's just me and the kids.
FRANMAC 1/7/08 4:59 P
Oh I know and I think he knows that he is very hard to live with - although to try and justify himself lately - he has been blaming me for things as well, which I don't like. It was hard enough when we kind of both agreed it was him - but now he is bringing me down with him which is making it harder. I do want to try and stick it out - I'm always praying on something that will make him realize the way he acts. He thinks he is great which is all part of his big self image. I am sorry to hear that you were with a guy that was abusive. I just don't understand why he has to be like this.
RACHELSUDDETH 1/7/08 4:52 P
FB, that's really a tough situation. All I can tell you is this. I lived with a man for a couple of years who turned out to be abusive. When we split, I missed his son, and yeah, it was hard on the kid, but that did not mean me and my daughters should have to live with abuse for the rest of our lives.
If you can work things out, it's worth putting in extra effort for the sake of the kids. But if a relationship is not workable, you are not responsible for him getting together with women and then ruining the relationship. They leave him for a reason.
FRANMAC 1/5/08 8:07 P
That was and is always my biggest fear. He swore to me when he left me the two times that he would never take them from me. He knows they should be with their mom, and I really don't think he wants to take care of them 24/7 since I am usually the one that does. The first time he left me - he did threaten once that he would take them - he was mad at me for whatever particular thing then - there is always something. But even if he were to move out again - I would still be worried about that. I am sorry that you are going through that possiblity. What makes you think he would take the kids?
FROGGIEBEAR 1/5/08 2:17 A
What so you do if you leave you lose your kids? I've been with the same man for almost seven years, he's not the same anymore, really angry at the world. He has two wonderfull children that I know I would loose if I left, they can't have another woman walk out of their life.
FRANMAC 1/4/08 4:58 P
I have been coping. That is all I can really do at this point, and to take care of myself - physically I mean, such as losing weight and exercising. I would love the couseling but he thinks its all a farce. The most I know at this point is not to confuse my kids anymore than they might be. And if we split again, I think their little minds will really be confused. I am trusting and hoping that things may take a turn at some point.
FRANMAC 1/4/08 4:54 P
Well I don't know what happened but as time went on with the second separation we got close, better friends than we had been in a very long time. I think he is the kind of person that is great to be friends with but not to live wiht.
SUSANNAH 1/4/08 4:50 P
I never understood people who were so close with their ex's anyway. If you have kids, yes, it's important to have a relationship...but why would you WANT to be buddies with your ex? Isn't THAT wierd?
FRANMAC 1/4/08 4:34 P
Yeah - the relationship reminds me almost of that movie "War of the Roses" but not quite that severe.
FRANMAC 1/4/08 4:33 P
Well kind of. No, his girlfriend was not going to come on the vacation that he was asking me to go on. Please, I would never do that whether I could or not. It ended up being just him and our two kids. And yes you are right - it is definitely mental abuse all around. He felt that we couldn't be good friends anymore if I was dating someone serious because it would get too weird. I think it was that fear of losing him as a friend and going by what he told me would be different is why I took him back the second time. I will check out your websites - any insight and help I can get is definitely appreciated!
RACHELSUDDETH 1/4/08 4:23 P
One more set of questions that I thought was pretty good: www.thisisawar.com/AbuseEmotional.htm
RACHELSUDDETH 1/4/08 4:19 P
Wait a minute here. While you were separated, he had you come on a vacation with him and his girlfriend, but if you dated someone, you couldn't be friends anymore? That clears up a lot. Sounds like emotional abuse to me, which is a real and damaging form of abuse. The best advice I can give you, or anyone else that's being abused, is to get away as quickly and completely as possible.
I'll provide a couple of links you can use to help you decide if my snap judgement here is right or not.
tinyurl.com/2tz4ht You'll want to look at the sections about "Emotional Blackmail", "Invalidation", and "Minizing"
Also, there's a pretty good assessment tool here: http://tinyurl.com/57cfl
FRANMAC 1/4/08 3:24 P
I don't know what is right. I am very happy around my kids and the three of us have a great time together. I think they like the idea of him being there and us being together but there are many things they don't like either. But I have to say - they listen to him a whole lot more than me. So maybe the fatherly discipline is needed at this time.
JENN_5388 1/4/08 2:37 P
it's a very VERY bad idea.
Kids are alot smarter than you think.. they most likely will be able to figure it out. and that is a whole lot worse than them seeing you not living together. I don't know why anyone would want to live like that.. even if they thought they were helping out thier children by being miserable. kids know when you are unhappy. is that really what you wanna show them day in and day out?
INSERTFT 1/4/08 2:31 P
FRAN, before you give any more thought to whether to stay or go, please give those books a shot, they may just change your perspective! Counseling never hurts, and guys don't like it cuz their pride tells them they're fine, it's not them. The trick is coping with him the way he is until he notices a different you, and then is wooed into loving you back! Most of them have no clue that they're not meeting your needs, remember, he's a man, wired totally different! I can't remember the address of the scripture that talks about the wife who loves her husband to God, but scripture talks about that, that your example and behavior will have a lot to do with his response. You just have to decide that that's what you want and set your mind to doing everything it takes, and then some. I would definitely read books by christian women authors, be choosy who you read. They have a different perspective than secular counselors will. Even our own christian therapist had a very secular view on things, we had to stop seeing him!
FRANMAC 1/4/08 2:10 P
The problem is - neither of us know what is the right thing to do. I just know I am tired of the put downs and all the issues involved. Another problem is, is that he thinks he is trying. I don't see anything but regression while I am changing according to what we had talked about when he asked to come back this last time.
FRANMAC 1/4/08 12:37 P
Thank you for the help. No, no abuse but maybe mentally. Which is abuse in itself. I have almost pleaded to go to marriage counseling many times in the past and he wont' go. I can only fend for myself, that is why being in here helps.
TEXBETS 1/4/08 12:20 P
I didn't read everyone else's responses, so please forgive me if I'm repeating something, but I would recommend marriage counseling (MC). It saved my marriage.
Most health insurance won't cover MC, but sometimes it will cover individual counseling (IC), and lots of therapists will bill the insurance company as if it's IC.
I agree with Dr Phil when he says, "You've got to earn your way out of the marriage." If you were being abused or if he was an addict or something, then yeah, get outta there. But if it's just boredom, MC is the answer, IMO.
(((Hugs)))
FRANMAC 1/4/08 12:16 P
A weekend trip - just the two of us - would be great. And the Wii games sound like a good idea too. We have some communication that is okay - but its very minimal to me. We do need bonding time - but it seems he doesn't want that. He goes our every few weeks with his friend. But never mentions anymore about us going out. He blames it on the "no money" thing - but he manages to get out. It's very hard.
LINDAS528 1/4/08 12:14 P
Depending on the age I think most children like having their parents in the same house (married). I am sure they truely love their father, even with all his faults, just like they love you (lets face it none of us are perfect). So if you ask they may want the two of you together, but really you need to do what is best for you and them. Not what everyone wants, as that may not be what is best. I would say if you really want to give it another try I would tell him it is up to him. If this is what he really wants then he needs to find a way back in love with you. If he can't, or won't, then tell him it is time to give it up and move on. Life is too short to waste time on someone who is not willing to meet you at least part way. Again JMHO
FRANMAC 1/4/08 11:47 A
Thank you Linda! You are right in everything you have said! My kids were fine when he was gone. I did ask what they felt before I fully agreed to him coming back the second time. They were really happy about it. I was really happy for a few months - but as I said - he stopped working on everything he said he would do - things he knew I wanted, and now he doesn't even seem to care that there is no sex. I am really at my wits end. Its almost like he did all that to work his way back in, and I feeled like a sucker and betrayed. We occasionally will have some good moments, but there is so much now stewing in my head, its hard to let this much stuff go. I really don't think I could tell him to leave again. I don't want the kids to have to go through that. Of course, unless I catch him cheating again - that would be it for me. If it comes from him, he will be out for sure.
LINDAS528 1/4/08 10:11 A
I am so sorry for what you are going through Franmac. I have been married for 27 years and like everyone has said it is a lot of work, but it does take two. You by yourself will not save your marriage, and my personal oppinion from what I have read is, that your husband is not working at your marriage. Emotional abuse should not be tolerated, from what you have said that sounds like what you have been putting up with. And lets be perfectly honest here ladies, if he cheated on you once he more then likely will do it again. I am not saying that every man will, but given the history from what I have read, it is more then likely the case. Your kids will be much better off in a happy home, even if Daddy is not in it. I love my husband very much and I truely feel he is my soul mate, but I have not always loved him during our long marriage. We have been through a lot of tough times and are going through some tough times right now. It sounds like your husband has already left the marriage, just hasn't bothered to tell you yet. I would suggest giving him the boot and moving on. JMHO.
FRANMAC 1/3/08 4:55 P
I know God has put us together (and kept us together) for a reason. I still feel horrible that my kids had to endure all of this but I also am thankful that I have two adorable, loving children that understand to the best that their little hearts can!
SUSANNAH 1/3/08 4:53 P
Well, what about a weekend trip, or mini-break?! Heck, maybe just send the kids off somewhere over night and get drunk together! You definatly need some bonding time.
My husband is the same way. I have to tread very carefully on delicate issues! It really sucks that you can't just "get it all out"!! We found a few activities that really bring us together. I know it sounds stupid, but the Nintendo Wii and the game Rock Band are awesome for us! He loves video games and since I don't but love those we can play together for hours and cheer eachother on and so on. It's perfect for us!
Is there anything you like to do together?
FRANMAC 1/3/08 4:45 P
I think that is it with him - the communication thing. Everytime we argue and I know I hit a nerve, he stops for whatever reason and ends the discussion. As far as vacation - I would actually like even to have a vacation with just him and the kids, but you're right - one alone with him would be great. The past three years he has planned vacations - the first one - we weren't together, but he still wanted me to come. I couldn't because of work. Last year, we did go together although I wasn't crazy about the place, plus his dad and his girlfriend came. I love his dad, but this is supposed to be our time. This year I didn't even get included in the discussion. He tells me his dad is renting a house in NC and this is where we are going on vacation. No discussion or anything. I tried to nicely tell him, that it would have been nice if I were included in that discussion and he got mad at me and said, well its not written in gold, and go ahead make a suggestion. I actually don't think I am going to go or can go. I am in the middle of a temp job and don't even know if I can get off and if I change jobs more than likely I won't be able to get the time off.
RUNNING2DAY 1/3/08 4:41 P
I agree that everyone feels like they're falling out of love sometimes, and so many people jump right into divorce without trying everything they can to bring the spark back. I made the decision to divorce, thinking that my kids would be better off without the tension, and that someday they would see both their father and me in loving, affectionate, relationships. Five years later, that hasn't happened yet for either of us, and the kids are grown and getting into their own serious relationships now. Did we do everything we could to save the marriage? Maybe or maybe not. Personally, I think we were both going through huge mid-life crises and should have both grown up and realized what we had. But every circumstance is different, and you have to trust your instincts to know what is best for you.
SUSANNAH 1/3/08 4:31 P
Then you just need to tell him. Maybe suggest going on a vacation alone together. You need to do something, that he is willing to do, to "invest in your marriage". If he won't go to therapy (which, honestly, why would he...he knows he'd look bad!) then maybe you can find other ways to bring the love back. And make a plan together on what you will BOTH work on! Maybe he had something that's bothering him, and he doesn't know how to communicate it?
FRANMAC 1/3/08 4:26 P
I am still in love with him and if it were to be we were apart and not even friends - does make my heart ache, so its not just the kids. I took him back because he saw I was dating and he approaced me and told me if I continued to date that we (me and him) couldn't be good friends anymore and that broke my heart. But he also promised me things would be different and that he was coming back for me this time. Well here it is almost ten months later and nothing is going on that he promised. Its even worse now because now we dont' have sex. I feel betrayed and wanting that excitement again of feeling loved, going out, knowing someone cares about me.
SUSANNAH 1/3/08 4:22 P
Are you still in love with him? Is that, besides the kids, keeping you around? Does a part of your heart hurt thinking you won't be with him anymore?
OR do you feel like you'd have a whole world of oportunity open to you if you weren't with him anymore?
FRANMAC 1/3/08 4:11 P
We talked about it on and off the second time he was out. He would keep putting it off. We stayed as separated so I could still get the health benefits and car insurance benefits through him. The first time he had left he would keep telling me that he didn't know what he wanted to do and meanwhile, while I waited and was trying to be patient, he would continue his affair. Finally when I backed him into a corner and found out he was off to see her again, I did actually file and he freaked. He had come back then after we had a big discussion but that time it only lasted for eight months.
SUSANNAH 1/3/08 4:00 P
Have you talked to him about divorse before? How does he react?
FRANMAC 1/3/08 3:34 P
Thats why this year is for me! I never take care of myself like I should. I took him back the last time because it appeared - at least he made it seem like it was for me, not money reasons. I had felt the love that I used to feel from him. But that all disappeared quickly and then I felt betrayed and stupid for being a sucker. Yes we have kids and I think if we didn't, he would have been long gone years and years ago. He is responisble financially. And his sense of guilt keeps him around. Not really the way I want it though.
SUSANNAH 1/3/08 3:20 P
Also, if there were no kids, would you still be struggling with the decision to leave? Children complicate everything (not saying they aren't totally worth it!).
A friend I work with is going through this EXACT situation. She actually told her husband she wanted a divorce (and meant it). Since then, he's been working really hard on changing his ways. He's even agreed to go to therapy. I've noticed that men sometimes don't realize what they want, until it is threatened to be taken away. They are like children, really!
You will get through this. And whatever happens, it will be for the best. Don't forget to take care of yourself while your at it!!
FRANMAC 1/3/08 3:14 P
In his feeble mind - just kidding - he is working on it all the time. Well I took him back this time on the promise of him changing a lot of things - and they all disappeared after a few months. I don't want my kids to have to go through him leaving anymore - he left twice already. My kids are great - and they love him but thoroughly understand his temperment. We all don't like it but deal with it. I love him too and I think the hardest thing for me is trying to understand why he can't try for real.
RACHELSUDDETH 1/3/08 3:06 P
That's a very good question. I guess I would ask, is it true that he isn't willing to work on it? I think it's possible to believe therapy is useless, but still want to work on a marriage. I think it's possible to have certain things you're unwilling to give up and stil make a marriage work. It's even possible to be your own person -- as long as he can do that without stepping on your rights, and allow you to be your own person, too.
If being his own person means thinking he can stay out/go out whenever he feels like it, and spend the family income without consulting you, that's stepping on you. But if it means he won't go to church or pray with you, and he wants to go bowling on Sunday afternoons & play softball after work on Wednesdays, but he's willing to watch the kids while you go to ladies' circle on Tuesdays & to lunch and shopping with your girlfriends on Saturday, not mind if you & the kids make some noise on Sunday morning getting ready & spend half the day at church, and you can work it out financially that you each get enough of what you want, then you can each be your own people, and help each other out at the same time.
If he's unwilling to give you the support you need to be your own person, too, then is it really love? Love does take work...
SUSANNAH 1/3/08 2:50 P
Marriage takes work...by both people, if he isn't willing to work on it, then why should you?
RACHELSUDDETH 1/3/08 2:49 P
To expand on what I was saying, and give personal examples: I have an ex husband. After a time, it became easy enough to quit loving him, because the truth was, he never showed me any true love. Love is that quality where you realize the other person has thoughts and feelings that matter, and you at least sometimes put him first. My ex was never capable of loving me, and no matter how often he said he loved me, or brought home cards or flowers, it was never really true. He wasn't there for me when I needed him most, he was unable to understand when I wasn't feeling well, and he never did anything to actually help me out in any real way.
My husband now doesn't buy flowers. Once upon a time, he intended to, because he knew I wanted them, but he never acutally thought of doing it while he was out. He doesn't mess around with romantic guestures -- it's just not his style. He doesn't give compliments much. In fact, he is sometimes brutally frank. You know what else? He does the dishes when I'm too tired to do them. He takes my son to day care, so I don't have to do it all. Sometimes he does things he doesn't want to, in order to make sure we have enough money to live comfortably together. He agreed to bring me to dances his friend invited him to, even though he had no interest, because he knew I would want to go. And he's now cheerful when I go dancing without him, even though he'd rather have me home, because he knows how happy it makes me.
And of course, I do the same sorts of things for him. Yes, we go through times when we get wrapped up in our own concerns, or upset with each other, or just feel blah and not very loving, but we never forget what it means to be committed to each other, and to show love, even though sometimes we don't want to. That's the kind of thing that keeps a marriage together, and without, I don't think there's any way to make one work.
FRANMAC 1/3/08 2:46 P
Thank you for adding me to your friends list! There is a definite reason we are together - and you are 100% right - our sensitivity levels compliment each other. I have learned a lot about myself and how to deal with things over the years in a different light than how I used to. I guess I still have a lot to learn - and him as well!
FRANMAC 1/3/08 2:45 P
Thank you for your help - but please, I have practically begged him to go to therapy. He doesn't believe in it and to go even further, he is definitely agnostic if not atheist. It can be scary at times - but I deal. He for the most part leaves me to how I want to raise the kids spiritually but issues always come up between the two of us.
RACHELSUDDETH 1/3/08 2:40 P
To the original question, if both really are miserable in the marriage, then no, it doesn't make sense to stay together for the kids. I have an aunt & uncle who did that, and my cousines agree with this.
However, I really don't understand what it means to "fall out of love." In the world I live in, love isn't a place you fall, it's something you do (I think I just quoted a country song.) So yeah, if there's not some mistreatment of at least one person going on, then I have to wonder, how can you live with someone as family for year, and not love him?
INSERTFT 1/3/08 1:47 P
See there, already I see a use for him, if you're sensitive, and he's not, you're purpose for being with him is to teach him how to be sensitive, and I'm sure you're already learning to not be so sensitive. Win-Win! It's hard to see what he might be learning or picking up over the years, my husband used to refuse to buy me flowers, because he's a landscaper and wanted nothing to do with paying for dead plants...that was his reasoning! After many years, I finally got across that it was the thought that was more important! And now, once a year, either valentine's day or mother's day, I get flowers. Nothing fancy, and it took a while, but they do get it. You have to think ahead, in 20 yrs I'm gonna have one hell of a man with all this training I'm doing!!
SUSANNAH 1/3/08 1:46 P
Have you considered therepy? Couples or even just by yourself. It sounds almost like you need to find out what YOU want first. I've been reading this great article about how couples therepy has saved a lot of marriages just like yours. Maybe splitting is best, but if you are willing to work on it, maybe you could work things out and have the marriage that you deserve. It's important to be happy for your kids. You don't want them to suffer, or grow up thinking thats the way marriage.
FRANMAC 1/3/08 1:41 P
Thank you for the encouragement and compliments! Thats why I love this site. As far as him - I mentioned to him a couple of weeks ago when he bought up my weight again that I had lost (at that time) 11 pounds and he said nothing. He still has said nothing. He is not big on compliments, or anything involving sensitivity. I think that is the cause of a lot of our issues too. I am very sensitive.
INSERTFT 1/3/08 1:37 P
By the way, great job on the weight loss so far, don't be ashamed to ask him to notice, tell him you need him to notice and need the encouragement!! He may not, but at least you let him know what you need! Hang in there!!
FRANMAC 1/3/08 12:43 P
Lol - yeah tons of fun. I put up with a lot - as I know a lot of women do. We too, are like you said, not on the same page about a lot of things. I pray on our relationship as well. I am trying to be different and do understand that I have learned a lot from him and that sometimes we do compliment each other. I understand too - that I probably still have a lot to either learn from him or, that he needs to learn from me which is why we are still together.
INSERTFT 1/3/08 12:36 P
Trust me, I know the challenges, my husband and I are definitely on different pages on a lot of things, another book that has helped tremendously is called Created to Be His Helpmeet, you can find it on the website nogreaterjoy.org it is a wonderful book and deals a lot with how to have joy no matter what he's like. I have prayed for years for my hubby to grow more in his walk with God so that I wouldn't have to put up with so much, but that's in God's time, in the meantime, I have to find the good and trust God. Hang in there, even though at times it seems a waste of time! If you ever need to vent, I'll listen, it helps to vent sometimes! Remember that if we're not giving love the way that they need to see it, then we have to figure out what that way is, cuz they probably won't be able to pinpoint it for us! Fun, huh??
FRANMAC 1/3/08 12:25 P
Oh but I do believe mostly the same way that you do. I believe God put us together for a reason and that it is not up to me to break that up. I also know that I am at fault also with whatever problems we have had. But even he would admit its more than 50% coming from him. I work on our relationship constantly. We have some good moments but they are rare lately since it seems to become just a mundane existence between the two of us. He was always the type - that wanted to be married but also wanted to be his own person. You can't really do that when you are married. That is just one of the issues for starters. But I will look into that book. Thank you for the suggestion.
INSERTFT 1/3/08 12:12 P
I know that sometimes it can be very difficult, men are just a different breed than us. But, there is a reason we are so different. We all have our own struggles in marriage, that make us grow in ways we didn't think we could. When things are hard, we have to look at the positive side of things. I have a lot of faith in God, and I believe that he picked my husband for me before I was born, so I know that everything I go thru with him is for a reason. It's hard when you can't see ahead to know how it is going to help you, but there is always a lesson to be learned and a concept to grasp, or a challenge for you to overcome. I know now, that God picked mine for me, to teach me patience, and how to be thrifty, how to control my temper, to be less impulsive, and for once in my life to stick with things I start. He is my accountability partner. Look for the things that you can learn from him, or thru him, and you will see his value!! Check out that book, For Women Only, I promise even if you don't have the same beliefs as I do, it will still benefit you!!
FRANMAC 1/3/08 12:00 P
Well, I don't know. We have been through so much. There are things that have happened to me that other women wouldn't forgive. I always try to put myself in his shoes or anyone's shoes, to analyze a situation. The fact is, its hard to respect someone who doesn't seem to care about you. He is mean to me, and although I know things could be a lot worse, this isn't the relationship I had dreamed of. I'm sure a lot of what you are saying is true - and I do try way more than I should, to show my love for him. He has told me in the past that he doesn't feel my love. I don't know what that means, I couldn't possibly show him anymore than I do. He is very money conscious, and although a good provider, still makes me feel less than what I know I am. Its hard to respect when you feel like that.
INSERTFT 1/3/08 11:44 A
I don't know much about the medication aspect of it, that could be a factor, but age also affects them. We had a similar problem for several yrs, and then we started having other problems, with communication, etc. Then it all came to a head, with some anger and fights. I sought some counsel and also took a class called "For Women Only" it's a great book, but goes into the inner workings of men. It hit on a few things that I knew I could change in myself and how I deal with him. The biggest thing was respect, men need that so much. I went thru several years of feeling neglected and lonely and like it was my fault, weight, etc. He could never pinpoint what, if anything, was the problem. But, the thing that seems to have done it for him, was my forgiveness of something he had done, that he couldn't forgive himself for. That respect and love, seemed to turn the tide for us, now he seems to have some more self-respect, and that has made a huge difference! Examine yourself, and your relationship and see if maybe there's some way that you are relaying disrespect to him. Guys need that so much. When they get angry, it's because they feel disrespected somehow, even if you didn't feel like you portrayed it. If they feel like you totally respect them, they will see you in a new light, a lot of their drive has a lot to do with how they feel about themselves and how they think you feel about them!! Give it a shot, it's done wonders for my marriage, and I didn't think he'd touch me again after the sixth child!!
FRANMAC 1/3/08 11:29 A
Okay - here goes, it "used" to be like that with my husband and I. Maybe once, twice a week. Would have been more if I wasn't in reality so dang tired, because it was great. It was actually the best thing we had together. But now after reconciling for the second time - after a few months. Nothing. And not on my part - he has no desire - so he says. I find it hard to believe but he is taking Tricor for Cholesterol/Sugar. But without the sex, there really isn't much between us. It was great - the relationship - the first few months that we got back together, but then slowly regresses back to the way it was, and now no sex. It really is leaving me very depressed.
INSERTFT 1/3/08 10:46 A
SEX, ladies, is the key! If you resist your husbands advances it is total rejection to him. If he feels you don't want him, how can he function? If you make your husband feel like he's the one for you, any and all times he makes an advance, he will be so in love with you, he'll do whatever it takes, even if it means listening to you vent, to save the marriage. SEX for men is tied to their egos, and if they don't feel respected and wanted, they will do little to try and make you happy. Headache is not a valid excuse, it's been scientifically proven that sex produces a hormone pain killer that will reduce or eliminate that headache. Being tired is not a good one either, would you rather have an unhappy marriage, or throw yourself at him for 10 solid minutes and rock his world!! If you give him a morning quickie without him asking for it, you will change his outlook on the whole day, including when he gets home after a stressful day!! Don't buy into feminism that says you are your own person, sorry ladies, your body is his when you marry him and you should give it to him willingly!!! That is after all why he got married!!
HEALER1 1/2/08 5:19 P
If it is creating a miserable enviroment for the children, wouldn't it be better to part and raise the children in a less stress filled enviroment? Staying together for the children does not do the children a favor. Please decide to do what will benefit the children the most.
MARCIALLEN 1/2/08 5:09 P
I came from a divorsed family, and when they were still married it was misserable for us all. It may seem like you are acting happy, and nothing is wrong, but kids can sense it. In my opinion it is better for the kids to get a divorce.
FRANMAC 1/2/08 11:13 A
Yeah the second time we split we managed to get to a very amicable, friendly relationship. It wasn't until he saw I started dating that I guess he got worried and wnated to come home - this time for me. I feel now as if I got suckered in again, because all the stuff he promised hasn't happened. We always tossed around what was better for the kids. I think him actually being home makes them feel better but at the same time - day to day living could be a lot happier. I don't know what the answer could be - but I know 2008 has to be focused on me for me!
BLUEKITTEN 1/2/08 11:06 A
This was exactly my situation when I was pregnant with my first son. I wasn't married, but was completely unhappy in my relationship. My SO thought we should stay together *for* the baby and I thought the complete opposite. I was brought up in extreme dysfunction and refused to pass that down to my children. I don't want my kids to grow up thinking that living in an unhappy marriage and fighting all of the time is normal...it just sets them up to go down the same path.
You have to do what is going to be right for you and your situation, but kids are going to be happier if they have two happy parents--regardless of whether those parents live together or not.
FRANMAC 1/2/08 9:54 A
Your words were encouraging to me as well! I find myself just about "out of love" with my husband at this point but I still know he is my soulmate. We have been in and out of love many times over 15 years. He has left me twice, and still I took him back again. Right now I am just focusing on myself and the kids. He has to fend for himself for awhile since I have probably been too doting over the years.
SHEOF3ANGELS 1/1/08 11:08 P
Karissa - I do agree with Suzanneyea only if it is you are just upset and feel like you fell out of love. Marraige is work, its not easy. Someone. older and wiser then me, told me in her marraige she fell in and out of love with her husband so many times that it was the love part that made her realize a marraige is not easy and it is constant work. But I also feel that if you know in your heart of hearts and it been a very long time since you have ever seen your spouse as a spouse then there does need to be changes. I have just seen from my own experience what it has done to my mom. I could not imagine living with someone whom you once loved and feel so empty inside living with them. I don't think kids should be your reason for staying. Your reason is because you so still love this spouse and you are willing to work through what ever (except abuse, drugs or any other type of dangerous situation) it is that you are both going through. I fall in and out of love with my DH but I know down deep inside I love him with all my heart and soul. Therefor WE have to work at our marraige. You can not make changes by keeping your thoughts and voice to yourself. He can not read your mind no matter how long you have been together. Hope some of this helps if you need to talk personally PM me and I would be happy to listen.
SUZANNEYEA 12/31/07 6:49 A
I would fight really hard to find my way back in love. I have had many periods in my marriage when I did not feel in love, but worked at it and eventually was back in love. It would take a lot for me to leave my marriage, like violence or drug abuse, otherwise I would work it out. But, I do not judge other people's choices, do what works for you.
SHEOF3ANGELS 12/31/07 5:17 A
Karissa - I came from a divorced family at the age of two. My mom remarried when I was two. So figuire that one out. Im sure my mom loved my step dad at some point and time but she fell out of love and I am not sure when. She is still married to my sted dad but would rather be somewhere else. She feels like she is in a rutt. I can only imagine her pain. I personally feel that staying together for the kids is wrong. Even though there might not be fighting in the house kids can feel tention and they know when something is wrong. kids are very resiliant and will adjust to seperate households. All they need to know is that both parents love them just as much as they did before seperating. As long as there is an amicable seperation and one doesn't use the kids as a tool then everything should go smoothly. Remember seperating is never easy but in the long run things will be easier. Some people find after seperating they really miss the other one and some find being coparents is actually better. Best of luck to you and your family. Take it day by day and always comunicate with your spouse even through what ever you decide.
KARISSAA 12/30/07 10:45 P
Is it right to stay together for children? I mean, if on person is miserable because s/he doesn't love the other person, and the other person is miserable b/c s/he knows the first person isn't in love, but they are capable of pretending to be happy around the kids and get along all right...is it better to stay together, or is it lying to the children and setting a bad example for their future relationships?
