"Which of the two statements are more accurate: 'Everyone should be accepted for who they are.' 'Everyone should seek improvement.'"
I would point out that unless you accept your ability to change, as part of who you already are, trying to improve is pointless.
I also want to say that support can come in lots of ways. Sometimes it's a kick in the butt, sometimes it's a sholder to cry on. sometimes it's just hanging out together. Why is any of it better then the other? Let's get real, be old school, and go with what works in the specific situation, not what some prejudgement says is god or bad.
BUFFEDSTUFF 5/22/06 6:19 P
Dang you must be old school, you must believe in personal accountability. That was the past this is now. see my goal is to complain too you about how I need to lose weight. your goal is to give me suggestions. then I am going to give you reasons why I can not do this for example, I hate drinking water, I hate exercise, I hate eating healthy, oh but I need to lose weight fast fast........then you say well I do understand and we cry together and the cycle continues. Come on you have to be political correct,what do you want people to say to you come on man suck it up, feel the pain, you can do it, get your butt in gear, you can lick this thing? never that might hurt someones feelings. Stroke my ego and make me feel good now that I understand
WARDROPCR 5/22/06 4:56 P
Dimidium facti qui coepit habet: sapere aude! ("He who has begun is half done: dare to know!"). from wikipedia.com
I love using Latin. It seems to inspire a whole concept, rather than a few English words that relate to too many other English words that lose the context.
TFRITTS 5/22/06 2:06 P
What few support groups I've been in have been helpful. For the most part they've simply made me realize that I'm not alone, I need to be much more thankful, and my problems are pretty small comparatively speaking.
I'm really impressed with the Latin I've seen recently: Dum Vivimus, Vivamus; Aut Inveniam Viam, Aut Faciam; SAPERE AUDE; and a few others. All pretty good, too.
GOLFPRO 5/22/06 10:58 A
Hey Corey,
While I see your point aboubt the personality question, I'll still disagree. I love my wife more than anything in the world. There may be some things that would bother me if she did them, but I love her for who she is. Does that mean I think she should stop trying to improve herself? Nope. But if she stayed the same for the rest of her life it wouldn't bother me one bit.
While I'm happy with who I am, part of that is that I'm happy that I never stop trying to improve myself. So I think they can go hand-in-hand. But, that's the beauty of life, we can all think what we want. =)
matt
CS_SPARKS 5/21/06 9:59 P
This is my first post I am new to the site, and any sort of "support" group. I read through the thread, and I have to agree with Matt golfpro: "Sensitive" is often just another way to describe defensive. Some people are agressive when they feel treatened, but it is still a defensive action. I am to the point where I just had to say "What point is there in defending this unhealthy lifestyle?" Suddenly it is easier to track what im eating, even when I travel. I plan to post a before and after picture a year from now. Thanks for the thoughts, I found the perspectives interesting.
WARDROPCR 5/21/06 6:46 P
Well, I totally agree that everyone keeps their own pace. And, this IS a team effort. So, if anyone needs a kick in the ass, you know where to find me- but I won't go picking fights. ;)
As for the personality question- I really don't think you can choose both. _Tolerance_ of a person's attempt to improve is very much needed, but I don't think that's acceptance.
For example- you're married right? What if you picked your nose incessantly? Now, your wife married you whether or not she knew you were a chronic picker. If you knew it bothered her that you picked your nose, would you try to quit? IMHO, it would be your responsibility to do so as a good person. It wouldn't be her responsibility to accept you for being a nose picker. Likewise, if you picked only 1 less green monster per day, she should be tolerant of your attempt to change. However, if she were to accept your nose-picking, then you have no motivation to stop. And, in cases of too-little communication, maybe you'd never know how she felt and you'd just keep wiping them on the arm of the couch, and she'd just sigh and move on, ever weary of the crusty arm rest.
Thus, I find that the best thing to do is to seek improvement in all things- primarily of which should be communication- for it's through communication that we can know what to improve. BUT, for anyone to be offended by communication only shows that they're fearful of the inherent effort, of self-improvement, since they mind-block anything they don't want to hear.
I'm ranting again, aren’t I. x.x
GOLFPRO 5/21/06 6:23 P
Coery,
Thanks for understanding where I was coming from. Personally, I found the less sensitive I was about my weight, the easier it was to lose weight. I've always been overweight. When I went on diets in the past i tried to hide it. (like people didn't know I was fat! lol) Once I admitted that I was "obese" and told everyone that I was changing my lifestelye, things got eay and I've been successful ever since. Unfortunately it's not so easy for everyone.
I like your question, but as usual, my approach to life throws a wrench in there. I think BOTH are true. People should always be seeking improvement, but while they're trying to improve, should they not be accepted for who they currently are? No one can truely improve on every aspect of their life all at one time. There is give and take through out life. So, if I'm fat, but I'm improving my marriage and finances, should I not be accepted for who I am since I'm fat? So while it's a great question, I thing people should live by both ideas. The worst is when people stop striving to improve.
While I'm never glad that anyone is/was over weight. I'm glad to hear you have at least can understand where we all come from. I think you can definitely help some people around here to find themselves. Just remember that we all go at our own pace and have different needs. Again, welcome to SP!!!
matt
WARDROPCR 5/21/06 6:01 P
Thanks for the reply. I agree with everything you said. Yes, it was insensitive, and I apologize for it being so. And, maybe I said things a little more harshly than I meant to say them.
But my question really lies in this sensitivity. My real question is, is this 'sensitivity' really productive, or counterproductive, to over-weight people reaching their goals?
I apologize again, if my rant offended anyone. It wasn't my intent.
And, yes- I spent most of my childhood grossly overweight. It wasn't until high school I changed my entire view on life. Nothing is fair, nothing is free. I was weak then, mentally and physically, and I see the same traits in others that I saw in myself. In fact, it was through recognizing them in others that I could correct them in myself.
Here's a personality question I've asked several dozen people over the past few months:
"Which of the two statements are more accurate: 'Everyone should be accepted for who they are.' 'Everyone should seek improvement.'"
I ask this, because all too often I find that people use the 'acceptance' excuse to avoid the inherent effort in self-improvement. Which again, is why I seem to be frustrated by some of the "support" I've been seeing. (I use the quotations on support, of course, in reference to my productive/counterproductive question above.
Again, thanks for the reply, and sorry if I've offended anyone. It really wasn't my intent.
-Corey
GOLFPRO 5/21/06 5:39 P
Hi there!
First, welcome to SP...regardless of what reason you're here, we're always glad to see a new face. I checked out your SparkPage, congrats on living such a healthy, active lifestyle. You're obviously a step or two ahead ahead of when most of us started this site.
Now then, on to several of your concerns or questions. "...I didn't join this thing to read about fat people talking each other up." Kind of insensitive don't you think? 99% of people on this site are (or were) overweight. We have all come here to help one another in whatever way possible. The majority of overweight people aren't "fat" because they like food and over eat. There is usually some underlying reason that leads to people eating too much. Positive re-enforcement and pyschological support help more people than you may realize. Calling all of us "fat" doesn't help.
I'm very happy that you joined the site looking for a healthier lifestyle and some "healthy competition". Please keep in mind, most people simply joined looking for some support and encouragement. There are many challenges and competitions going on throughout the SP community. But the truest challenge that most of us face is looking in the mirror each day and hoping to achieve wat you already have.
"Is anyone else feeling disheartened by the amount of weak-minded people around here?" I'm going out on a limb here....you're never in your life been overweight, fat, or obese, have you? It's not as simple as putting your nose to the grind-stone and working hard. As I mentioned above, obesity doesn't just come from the enjoyment of food. The mental aspect plays a large part of this. To come into a website and question how so many people are weak minded, again, quite insensitive.
"...the last thing I need is people seeking support talking me up to make me feel accepted..." I don't think anyone on here came looking for your support. You have a choice on what you read, what you respnd to, and how you want to support people. The message boards and forums are here for SUPPORT. Please repect the fact that the boards exist here for positive reasons only. If we are all to weak minded and supportive, you may not want to read our posts.
"Is anyone else frustrated by this, or have I simply come to the wrong place?" Honestly, you may have come to the wrong place. If you read the first section under the community rules, it states:
"Respect everyone’s opinions. Even though you might not agree with someone, that doesn’t mean they are wrong or deserve to be belittled. Remember that what works for you may not work for everyone else. Give everyone the same courtesy you would expect in return."
We would love to have you as a supportive part of the community. It's always great to have a new guy around that may teach us a thing or two about exercising or living a healthier lifestyle. If you can accept us for who we are, please stick around and help along the way. If you can't accept that some of us are fat, or weaker-minded, or richer, or poorer, etc, then you may just have come to the wrong place.
Everyone in this world is raised a different way, religion, gender, race, finances, etc. I'm sure your strong work ethic has helped you succeed in your military career. I thank people like you every day for defending our country and helping America be who we are....free...free to believe in a different god, free to wear what clothes we want, free to go to school where we want, free to be fat or skinny, etc. Please respect everyone for making their own choices and making this country what it is.
Matt
WARDROPCR 5/21/06 4:26 P
I don't want to walk into this thing being pessimistic. Really, that's not my intent.
But.. what. the. f*ck.
To all you guys (and gals) out there trying to lose weight- great. Seriously, if I can help in any way, I'm all about it. But I didn't join this thing to read about fat people talking each other up.
I'm posting this in the guys forum because I really don't see it with the dudes like I do with the girls. Yay for us.
I joined this site to _assist_ me with living a health(ier) lifestyle. And, to be quite honest, for a challenge, to compete with strong-willed, motivated people. I firmly believe in healthy competition - it's the American way.
Is anyone else feeling disheartened by the amount of weak-minded people around here? I don't mean simply overweight. I mean fearful of a sincere effort, of kicking themselves in the ass. Fearful of a little pain, a little discomfort, or an answer they don't want to hear. Is anyone else frustrated by the way empathy gives way to effort?
'If you want something, you've got to fight for it.' That's the way I was raised. I'm not perfect- far from it- but the last thing I need is people seeking support talking me up to make me feel accepted. I have goals, and until I reach them, I don’t want praise. When I reach them, I’d like a pat on the back and to establish new goals.
I guess I'm just looking for strong people with common goals, not weak people looking for support.
Is anyone else frustrated by this, or have I simply come to the wrong place?
